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The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-12 / 18:07 UTC GMT +00:00

Hey ricochet are you saying that Hyperstealth is out of the running for the US contract for supplying the uniform pattern?

From what I know it is down to two patterns Hyperstealth and the other.

Here is a link of the patterns head to head in different lighting conditions.


http://www.hyperstealth.com/US4CES-comp ... index.html

And the MOST IMPORTANT aspect IS that multicam is not even close at Night Time.
I can't explain in detail here on this forum or have the time but as they always say "a picture is worth more than than a thousand words".

http://www.hyperstealth.com/GenIII-NVG/index.html



The only reason when the contract comes down from the US Millitary to awarding the New contract to anyone other than Hyperstealth will be that they DO NOT HAVE ANY GREASE or BROWN PAPER BAGS. ;)
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-12 / 18:51 UTC GMT +00:00

Once again the Americans have wasted millions of dollars and everyone's time in the camouflage trials for a new pattern for the Army. At least they didn't end up with another ACU.
The Army has halted all testing for a new universal pattern for the Army.

http://kitup.military.com/2013/12/senat ... armys.html
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-13 / 01:44 UTC GMT +00:00

They officially announced Crye months ago.
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 06:40 UTC GMT +00:00

Hey ricochet that is not correct. The dissision was postponed.
Here is an in depth report.

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/03/07/us ... placement/

As I have posted a link the NV testing in the IV stag testing they did not get around to test because it was stayed.
The Army would have come to awarding Hyperstealth the contract if they official tested all three then Hyperstealth would have won.
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 17:21 UTC GMT +00:00

It is and it isn't.

http://m.military.com/daily-news/2014/0 ... forms.html

When Crye was awarded the contract, that was when they officially released the other variants of their camouflage pattern. When all was said and done, Crye wanted "X" amount of money for exclusive use, and the US army refused to pay the royalties; "officially". Sources have also admitted that issues arise from the following; they want exclusive use, not within US military forces, but through world markets. So they don't care if the SEALS use it, but they don't want it used by Canada, France, Slovakia, etc. Which is difficult seeing as how Britain, Australia, and a few other countries either already use it, or have their own variation of it, along with contracts with Crye Precision. Another source has claimed that Crye wants rights to the gear distribution of their own design, instead of the Army using ACU (army combat uniform cut), and that'll up the entire cost of gear for the Armed Forces. Another rumor is that special operations groups within the US, do not want the spread of multicam, because they already use it as one if their patterns, and aren't thrilled about regular force being issued it as standard kit.

Although further testing on camo patterns continue, no group has been knocked out of the finals, so it still stands at four; ADS/Hyperstealth (US4Ces family), Crye Precision (Multicam family), Krytek, and Brookwood.

I know for a fact that several companies are fighting over contract rights with Kryptek over who'll produce gear and distribute, so far Mayflower, Velocity, and UR Tactical seem to be the primary suppliers. I don't know if that complicates things, and maybe scared the Army away or not. Originally many interested parties thought that Krytek was a joke, and were unwilling to take it seriously due to its look. After the extensive testing however, it seems sources have changed their tunes, and are impressed with how it works. I have however heard that people still don't want to wear it. I honestly thought this was an interesting looking pattern, and was very interested to see "official released" results from the testing. The military however have been pretty hush hush, which I suppose is understandable.

Crye Precision was probably always going to win. Many sources in or connected to the military have claimed several times that three patterns were never in the budget, and that they would be forced to choose one. Due to multicams huge success in a wide array of environments, and the fact it's already widely deployed, mostly in Afghanistan, to replace UCP (useless crap pattern), I mean (universal camo pattern), also known as ACU, it was a logical step. Another issue presented is that their current contract with Crye, for their current use of their pattern, outlines certain rights of both parties, the military and the company. It stands to reason that a new contract would have to be rehashed to cover a complete replacement and exclusive use of multicam, and both sides may be unwilling to budge on certain points; but who knows? As far as Multicam goes, our team has been using it for ten years with great success through several woodland, grassland, rocky, and arid environments, which although the multicam hate machine has been around for some time, doesn't change the results. On the "Skorpion" front, I don't know what to say. Skorpion was an early multicam concept pattern that was never officially released. They were trying to father a transitional pattern, and Skorpion fell short or was inadequate, although it may have had success in arid/desert areas. When Crye made the final four, and a "family" of patterns seemed to be the goal, there was a lot of speculation that Skorpion would end up their official arid/desert pattern in the running, along side multicam, and whatever they came up with for woodland/jungle. With the release of their new patterns, I'd say it's a safe bet that Skorpion will end up being nothing, except an old concept, and can stay in the vault.

Hyperstealth/ADS/Guy Kramer was another pattern that interested me, especially their woodland variant. A little back story on us to clear up our interested here. We've been using multicam for many a year, but standard airsoft sims usually go "tan versus green". Multicam has almost universally ended up being considered tan, even though it's transitional and contains green, it is actually and mostly earthy tones, and has a tan base, so really it makes sense I guess. A while back we decided to get an alternate green camo, so if needs be we could play on either side, to help balance out numbers or experience at games that we attended. Many camo patterns have been looked at and researched in depth, so we have kept a close eye the "US Army Camo Improvement Effort" as you can imagine. Other than Marpat which is decent, and AOR2 which is fairly transitional, we've tried several digitized patterns, and they all either only work in one specific area, or flop. Where we found they really fail was in movement. You can hide in deep green with Cadpat, but once you shift a bit, you become quite visible. Everyone has their own opinions and experiences, but one thing I can say for sure, is that no forest, not any environment is consistent throughout. All plant life, light, shadow, texture, and terrain changes as you move through any environment, especially a forest. Although I have seen a few photos of side by sides, which all camo companies do, "setting up their camo", it doesn't really tell the tale. Great! Your camo hides on that patch of grass a little better than woodland, multicam, Kryptek, AOR, whatever. Hyperstealth interested is from the start as it was a more "broken up", or "off digitized", digital pattern, the truth is I haven't heard anything especially good about it. As pretty as it may be, it either works, or it doesn't, or it works so-so. Either way, it is what it is.

As for Brookwood....yuck! Maybe it works great, I couldn't tell you. That fact the "no one" talks about it, out if the four families of patterns, is probably a bad thing. It looks like somebody spilt coffee and hot dog condiments on their shirt, and then tried to save face by turning into some sort of rudimentary tie-dye. Who knows though? Maybe it works awesome....

What I perceive as being likely from all reports, and Internet speculation? Crye, or rather multicam will likely get the contract. The other alternative is that they will simply adopt the multicam coloration, and throw it in marine pattern, so the Army matches the Air force and Navy. As they all wear digitized camo, call it what you want, I.e. Marine pattern, NWU (Naval work uniform), AOR (area of responsibility), etc, etc. As for the four finalists, I can only say this. They are likely continuing testing because of the amount of time and money already invested, and why not see if they can find find some camo with dominating dynamics. Perhaps to adopt it into Special Forces, or even to adapt their own, new style pattern, off of their findings. Who really knows? But as far as contracts go, I don't see Hyperstealth winning anything.
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 21:25 UTC GMT +00:00

It won the most prestigious and exclusive contract already. The SGB contract.
Last edited by Meatshower on 2014-04-14 / 23:02 UTC GMT +00:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 21:49 UTC GMT +00:00

I um....stand corrected?

Honestly, I hope it is a lot better than early reports. It is possible that it just isn't any better than what's out there. By that I mean if you stack certain patterns together at a slight range, they look the same. Some may have slight advantages in certain areas, but I suppose it's all about what you're after. As long as the pattern works for your needs. I don't know if if wear a super vibrant or very single sides pattern, but there are some that majorly flop, but guys wear then just for look. I won't complain though, an easy target is an easy target.
I never wear an emblem, garment or title I have not earned. I never pretend to be, claim to be nor impersonate someone or something I am not. I never diminish, disrespect nor depreciate the sacrifices of true heroes. I utilize military style gear, equipment and tactics as they are the best and most appropriate tools for the job. I am a combat sports athlete.

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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 22:33 UTC GMT +00:00

Also you can through into the pot that in the real world sceneries were we seldom not full of dust, dirt, mud and grime! that has a way of changing all camo appearance.
I remember many sleeps ago, taking a course on "why things are seen" when we talk effective patterns, they are all only as good as their surroundings and inviroment!
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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-14 / 23:08 UTC GMT +00:00

Yup. Ask any military person; even great camo works better when it's a little dirty and faded.
I never wear an emblem, garment or title I have not earned. I never pretend to be, claim to be nor impersonate someone or something I am not. I never diminish, disrespect nor depreciate the sacrifices of true heroes. I utilize military style gear, equipment and tactics as they are the best and most appropriate tools for the job. I am a combat sports athlete.

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Re: The Noob's question: Effective Camo Patterns?

Post2014-04-15 / 00:14 UTC GMT +00:00

Ricochet wrote:works better when it's a little dirty and faded.


;) 8-)
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