Panther's new prices

[jsae]

After a quick chat with Stan (Milsig Canada) after the Omega Ops "popcorn airsoft" scenario today, I have taken a look at the pricing on offer.

From the shiny new Milsig-operated Panther website:

• Day Rate for Players = $25
• Day Rate for VIP Members = $15
• Membership Dues for remainder of 2015 (till 30 April 2015) = $120
• VIP Dues for 2016 = $200 (estimated)

Consider:

1. If you play once a month, the member and plain costs for the rest of this year are close = $240 vs 200
2. If you play twice a month, the member pays 360 and the plain player pays 400
3. Three times a month, the member pays 480 and the plain player pays 600
4. Every week of the year? Member pays 900, plain player pays 1300
5. $15 today is like $6.87 in 1999 (inflation has turned what was $11.45 in 1999 into $25 today)

This is before you include the following planned field improvements:

• upgrades to player set up area
• new safety mesh curtains around the parking area separating game space from parking
• replacement structures

I believe that Milsig plans many other improvements, too.

I think that the one thing we need to acknowledge as a community, is that we have enjoyed a unique period insulated from cost-of-living increases to the field prices which must now end.

I think I'm ok with paying a bit more for a better setup field. New netting, better toilets, and some improved structures all sound worth the money. It'd be great if they could add another bridge or two as well.

you are forgetting to add the mandatory BBs at $15 a bag for 1000 by end of next month!

with the $25 field plus $15 BBs that $40 for a day of drop in.

or pay the corkage of $5 plus $25....= $30 for a day of drop in. by your own BBs?

[jsae]

I was only comparing site rental fees, treating the BB supply cost separately. When I chatted with Stan, I believe he suggested that our field fees should include a bag of BBs. I'll check.

Now, looking at BB supply, the structure (before coming together in LMAG and assembling a proposal for MilSig) seems to suggest the following BB supply costs (shooting 1000 BBs per session):

• Member ($7.50 /1000)
  
  • 1000 Field BB's 2x each month -- 180 for the year (740 total includes field field)
  • 1000 Field BB's for every week -- 390 for the year (1370 total with field fee)
  • 24000 own BB's (0.28g) per year, "corkage" 2x each month -- 180 +120 = 300 (860 total with field fee)
  • 52000 own supply each year, "corkage" every week -- 360 + 260 = 620 (1600 total with field fee)
• Non-member ($15 /1000)
  
  • 1000 Field BB's 2x each month -- 360 for the year (960 total with field fee)
  • 1000 Field BB's for every week -- 780 for the year (2080 total with field fee)
  • 24000 own BB's (0.28g) yearly, "corkage" 2x each month -- 180 +120 = 300 (900 total with field fee)
  • 52000 own supply each year, "corkage" every week -- 360 + 260 = 620 (1920 total with field fee)

Of course, we need to clear up the following:

1. Will LMAG members accept Milsig house brand (Tamashi)?
2. How long before field will stock sealed original-brand bags?
3. Will Milsig require "corkage" when you bring bags purchased from the field previously?
4. How will Milsig treat those of us who only use 8000 BB's a year?
5. Would Milsig provide a structure for a group-based BB purchase rate?

I agree the $25 field fee should include a bag of BBs. non member

also I would go for $7.50 per 1000 BBs when buying extra BBs, after all they are $7.50 per 1000 at their retail store front, makes sense.

[Claymore]

I completely understand that the cost of playing Airsoft at Panther needs to go up from $10.00 a day.

Two years ago when pricing changes were rumored to be coming and guy's starter to light their Hair on Fire.
I tried to calm the waters by comparing this sport to others out there at the time. At $15 to $20, a day (6 to 8 hours) of playing was the cheapest form of entertainment going. "So, just relax put your hair out"

I don't know where you are getting your numbers from jsae?

If you played 2X a month as a member your cost would be $560** for membership only per. year.
Non-Member. $625 if you played 25 times includes BB's.

If you played 3X a month as a member your cost would be $740** for membership only per. year.
Non-Member $900 if you played 36 times includes BB's.

If you played 4X a month as a member your cost would be $860** for membership only per. year.
Non-Member $1100 if you played 44 times includes BB's.

**the cost off BB's no matter what you will be needing to buy some, and that is going to cost you somewhere in the Ball Park of $330 to $450+.

jsae, now you mentioned that

"This is before you include the following planned field improvements:

upgrades to player's set up area
new safety mesh curtains around the parking area separating game space from parking
replacement structures

I believe that Milsig plans many other improvements, too.

I'm all for improvement but let's NOT confuse what is mandatory to open the doors to do business and say that they are improvements. If their insurance company saw the state of the parking lot field mesh and most of their structures, they would not be aloud to open the door to the public for business.

What is mandatory and what is an upgrade are two completely different conversations?

I look forward to the new changes.

Shoot you later,

Claymore

[jsae]

Interesting counterpoint on the field renovations, claymore. I had thought of it as required to stave off closure of the field, but failed to connect that it's beyond what the players would treat as an improvement. Also, I only have fragments of the list of renovations, I'll need help collecting all the items previously noted.

I took the base numbers and rates from the new Panther website and fed them into a spreadsheet to do the calculations for each case. I just wrote the final numbers here. All member costs include the annual dues. Please note that the membership dues for a new year is going to be 200 unles Milsig offers an "earlybird" rate of 120 in future years.

To compare my calculation for 3x per month:

• Member - 3x per month
  
  • Dues = 200
  • Field = 540
  • Field BBs = 270
  • Total = 1010
• Non-member - 3x per month
  
  • Field = 900
  • Field BBs = 540
  • Total = 1440
• Member with own BBs - 3x per month
  
  • Dues = 200
  • Field = 540
  • Own BBs = 270
  • Field corkage = 180 (may not be applied correctly, need to confirm)
  • Total = 1190
• Non-member with own BBs - 3x per month
  
  • Field = 900
  • Own BBs = 270
  • Field corkage = 180 (may not be applied correctly, need to confirm)
  • Total = 1350

For the all-year calculation, I used 52 weeks instead of 4x over 12 months.

All these calculations assume that we pay for the BBs, if Milsig includes the BBs in the day fee the costs will be lower.

Futher, LMAG could approach Milsig with some collective offer or request, which could bring together some middle ground that balances all parties' interests.

[jsae]

UPDATE
As at 2015-05-17:

• Non-member day fee = $25
• 1000 Milsig Tamashi bioBBs = $0
• day corkage fee = $5 (flat, for as many bags as you want to have inspected, valid for one day - includes last week's field BBs)
• $34 after taxes

Notes

1. Set up area has new heavy duty picnic tables
2. Dunes boundary netting is 50% upgraded (north end) to airsoft mesh
3. Bridges have safety mesh

AIRSOFT
DROP-IN RATES

Admission $25.00
( FREE 1000 BB’s for Gun Owners until May 31, 2015)


keep in mind in 12 days the drop in price go's up as BBs will not be free ($10 per 1000) = $38 or $33 if you pay the corkage.

[jsae]

Non-permanent inclusion of 1000 rounds?!!

Something to work on changing.