A friend just ask what is happening with Airsoft these days

[Claymore]

A friend recently asked what's been happening with the local airsoft scene as he has not had a chance to play for some time. Life getting in the way .

This is some of my sense of what is going on these days. No one group of guys has or wants to lead the serious or the guys that want more than just standing and shooting at each other for 30 to 40 minutes and then going back to the safe zone to reload and bullshit about gear and the 14 year olds not calling there hits. Most of the time it's the 20 something's that are the "BIGGEST OFFENDERS" that have all the latest and greatest gear therefore their gun MUST SHOOT STRAIGHT like a laser to 300ft. 30 bb's ROF. and hit's their target every time. They have watched the Chris Costa training video twice so they know... Just ask them. They are and will always be around until they wear their welcome out.

This is just MY opinion and 2 cents response to his question.
If someone want to throw this up on the FB, GVAC or whatever it's called, feel free if this will help stir the pot to help the cream rise to the top.

Hey XXXXX

For the most of it we are all still here. It seems that the masses would rather not want to hone their abilities to play more than an 1hr game, and just want to stand behind a tree and shoot at whatever moves.

I'm sure you have seen it before you have been around a long time. In the past you would have seen week to week a couple of new guys just starting up and everyone around would help in one way or another guide them along (play the game). Now anyone that wants to pick up a gun and start playing their own way or rules they can. There are groups out there that will let them do so.

It is falling down to the lowest common denominator. The guys that have all the gear and are average players can now step on the field and plug 30 to 40 Noobs and get that feeling of being an DICK SWING OPERATOR that can set the game on his computer to easy to get that sense of gratification of winning. Hopefully the majority of the guys wake up and want more than shooting fish in a barrel.

Playing with the drop-ins is like going to a U-Catch kiddy fish pond. Where you bring your 5 to 9 year old to try fishing for the first time to give him or her a sense of successful fishing. Because they have no attention span. You don't what them to get cold or uncomfortable or have to walk or sit too long. They don't have to figure out what the fish are feeding on, walk for miles or cover Km's of water to find where the fish are hiding. You just throw a florescent orange marshmallow on a hook and cast it into a 20m x 30m pond. By the second or third cast the kid hooks a trout and that feeling hooks them for life 95% of the time. After that they will sit or walk for hours. Some will toil for hours over gear and learn techniques to find that thrill again.
Now if that kid likes that experience but only wants to go to that kiddy U-Catch to fish. Then they would be told eventually to grow-up and go fishing for a real fish and leave this pond for the kiddies.

I think and hope that, with all the new players, a majority of them stick to the sport and want to better their game and that will draw them towards more structured and organized games or play (that LMAG or whoever is running that day for more serious players). THEN those U-Catch Airsofters better pickup their game and play with some real competitor's instead of keep playing with the 13 year olds, that is just CREEPY.

I hope that the experienced players don't all quit so we can work through this. Panther has pretty much said that we can run games and more or less enforce our own rules. Their only stipulation is we need to give any willing players a fair chance if they want it, walk on or not. That's not the issue though. As Dave has pointed out, players aren't playing. When they do play scenario games there is cheating, tempers and they play stagnant. Then at lunch they scatter to the wind, many going home, others standing around talking or even just going to play with the walk ons. Of course on other days they just go play walk on airsoft to begin with. This is their choice, and honestly, if they don't want a challenge then I wouldn't want them playing with us anyways. These are many of the guys who don't call hits, ignore rules like boundaries and yell at others to call their hits when their guns work little better than toys, and don't even penetrate grass.

We need more interested players. There are of course smaller scale games that can be fun with 8 - 12 players, but I don't see why we can't get at least 20 - 30 regulars on the same page.

Pretty sad actually, lots of good people put lots of hard work into lower mainland airsoft from its conception in the 90s up until the last year or so. because of the "grey" area of our sport at the time, it had to be played in a low profile and with respect to the public and to not shoot ourselves in the ass, consequently we were very sensitive to how we played and governed the games, rules were a very big part of it and we enforced them to keep the wolves from the door and not to let loose cannons bring bad attention to what we were doing.

there was lots of structure and you had to earn your way to play, Dicks were removed before they could even think, if you tried to write your own rules you were told to beat it!! noobs had training days to learn and were placed with a vet to mentor them along until they got the idea and became a respectful "airsofter"

we had structured clubs and structured games with scheduled game days that players respected and signed up for... and we played the hell out of each other from 10am until 5 pm every weekend for years!

So where are we now? I hear lots of lip service...a few attempts to resurrect but....nothing!

I find it very discouraging and most times look around and shake my head at the BS I see now, the parking lot total disrespect is absolutely outrageous! players walking around Mags in, no barrel condom and shooting with no goggles all in an unsafe manner!!!

and due to this bullshit, we...the vets that put all the hard work in...have lost some privileges like the old chrono area because of dicks disrespecting the rules, we also had out distance markers taken down and told not to use the area behind dunes because of the rule violations!! unfortunately the same people that took away our privaladge...do not supervise the parking lot and allow all these infractions to happen! unfortunately I have also witnesses experienced players breaking some of these rules also and being disrespectful dicks on the field!?!!?

Anyway, after close to 15 years in this sport I am seriously looking at moving into an other hobby, airsoft has seemed to run its course in the lower mainland in the structured disciplined game, to a "Paint- soft" culture, it appeals to the young crowd and to the cross over paintballers that love the run and gun no holds barred game, then regroup back at the safe zone....repeat!

unfortunately we have very few vets left that want to keep the structure of old going, they seem to prefer the drop in shoot em up at least that's how it appears ? , there is nothing for the noobs to strive for, nothing for them to learn from just skate board kids in combats, no meds enforced, no mandatory fps checks, lots of non hit infractions , little respect to obey or enforce basic rules.....but the most seems to prefer this style as most play it?!?

Rant over

well holly crap turds I have been out for about a year now and with things slowing down I was hoping to get back to playing but talking to a few of my oldy but goodies I'm not so sure i want to.Having been one of the few original players who helped get our sport to a level of honor and respect for not just the game but each other it saddens me to hear what has become of a sport I actually held close to my heart shame on you who have come in and destroyed countless hours of hard work and effort by what started out as 2 small clubs,the dedication put forth by respectful dedicated men/women who loved the thrill of the hunt and helped the fallen stand on there own again.If you are a new player reading this I hope you have the brain capacity to understand this game didn't just pop up as some new fad it took many many many years of hard work from 2 clubs blood sweat and tears for you to be able to pick up your store bought new gun and run around like the terminator shooting anything and everything that moves.Please RESPECT what has been done FOR you again I am truly saddened at the state of Airsoft....Napalm out...

That's a very interesting read on the state of play, opinions, & experience. I'm new to the airsoft scene, not on Facebook, and on the dark side of the moon (Hope, BC).
Some things I've found is that (keep in mind these are the observations of someone new, inexperienced, & unconnected. But this is where a new player is coming from):

1) it's a pretty closed community there is a bunch of info on past games & clubs but not a whole lot of current stuff. I've tried looking for a club or group to join, but mostly I'm finding a lot of "page not found" messages on the screen. Perhaps if I was on facecrack, it might be easier but some folks choose not to sign on with that. I'm sure the more that I'm out to games & meeting people that it'll open up more. I'm sure that being this far out in the valley limits my options too.

2) Mentorship. This kind of ties into the lack of clubs or formality to the scene. I've been lucky enough to have some contact through some PM's on here pointing me in the right direction of people to look towards as good examples and experience. But I think if there were some options for a newb such as myself to spend some time with experienced players on a few occasions (ideally outside of a game day when there is a lot going on), it would probably be a great way to groom newcomers to the standards of play, teamwork, safety, and rules. Maybe once the days are longer some evening training events could be good? Even if it's a once a month kind of thing it would catapult those of us who are new & keen to become folks that you veteran players would want to game with.

3) Is there a "leauge" or anything which players can work their way into & up? I may be overstepping my modest beginnings here (or completely out to lunch). Somewhere that our past performance, our input into the games & scene, our sportsmanship is all there for accountability? It'd be relatively easy to set up & shouldn't require too much effort to maintain. Experienced players can vouch for newcomers based on what they see, constructively critique mistakes or issues they see arise, and call out any giant cheaters or hacks.

Anyways, just a few thoughts from an outsider looking in. I'm looking forwards to meeting you guys over the coming season, & learning as much as I can.

-Saxon.

Saxon, what you're looking for is a team. Teams are groups of guys who play together on a regular basis, and often will have similar gear and equipment, etc. Then there are groups or small communities, LMAG is one of these. Essentially it's an amalgamation of like minded teams and players who share similar goals. I too am kind of an outsider, but I've been in airsoft for a decade now, and have been playing with LMAG for about the last two years.

Here's what I see to be the primary issues. Let's start with airsoft fields. Panther seems to be the primary outdoor field, and is one of the largest, with lots of terrain and structures, bunkers, etc. Most of the community of players revolves around there to one extent or the other. Panther used to focus on paintball, so when LMAG and others started playing there, they were intrinsic to the airsoft scene growing and also helped build up the play area. Some fields such as MRP are trying to fight against the dying paintball market, and have banned airsoft entirely. Then there are small fields indoor and outdoor, but not really big enough to supply a decent play area for lots of regular players.

Next there are the player groups. First off is groups like LMAG, which is kind of the only one of its kind in the area, then there are teams or groups who stand alone and wish to do their own thing; fair enough. Maybe they don't like LMAG's rules or something. Beyond that there are few noobish teams and then of course the drop-ins. I think age/maturity and budget/time plays a large role in what type of airsoft people play. Some players just want to go out and shoot and pretend to be a hero, so they end up just playing simplistic styles. In most markets that's only the kids, but out here many of the weekend warriors are taking the easy way out. I can figure out why, but there you go. LMAG along with a few others are trying to play scenario airsoft or more closer to combat simulation airsoft, which is the most progressive type in the sport. This style of gaming takes team work, communication, honor and effort. Simple minds get lazy and distracted, and drift away to speedball type games. Also there is now GVAC, which has some LMAG members, and is just a way to organize games for everyone apparently. I'm not on social media, so I can't comment. I still do everything through ASC and LMAG.

So many of the experienced players are in LMAG, and they are usually the most proactive in past organization. I have heard several people complain that they are close-knit, but in my experience they have been a great group of guys to play with. All it takes is to contact them and they'll invite anyone willing to participate out to play. At the moment (the last few weeks), they aren't at their best as you can imagine. GVAC has had some good ideas, but things are really shaky right now.

The issue lies in who controls the property. That's not a shot at Panther or any other game facility, but there it is. Panther has new rules and has changed a few things on their field. They are a business and are taking a greater interest in airsoft over paintball, so change was inevitable, but many of the long standing members of the community aren't happy with the current state of things, and feel that their efforts to help make airsoft what it is has been disrespected. The current issues have caused different denominations of airsofter's to stop cooperating, and it's nowhere near what it was a little while ago. Even I remember that. I have noticed some issues within LMAG as well, mostly on cooperation. Things like where we're all playing such as MRP or Panther, showing up regularly, etc, are making stability hard. These are just my observations.

I think it can be fixed, but we'll see I guess.

[jsae]

Some small additions:

• Missing websites - possibly because the newer players are fb users who became players they are using fb more to coordinate than before
• Weekly scenario games - "you post, you host" (when individuals or groups post a scenario and then run it that Sunday) seems to be failing as very few come forward with scenarios
• Safety - without the atmosphere that invested players have in the community, it may stagnate a while. I have seen other experienced groups just shrug off safety hazards and the perpetrator learns nothing.
• New Players - even with lax incoming new players, we have diligent new players coming in, too

I am optimistic about the community. But the community needs the old teams and LMAG to join in and subtly nudge it along.

[Noir]

From a guy that works out of town you can take my ideas our leave it. But I think that the biggest problem with LMAG is our image. From talking to airsofters at panther we are looked upon as elitist, rule benders when we think a game is stupid and complainers. I think there is truth and lies in all of those. I think as consumers it is our right to complain when we are not entertained by game types and not have to feel like mentors. I remember early days with LMAG we the group could laugh at any player doing something stupid and it was like joking with our friends. I don't think that is the relationship we have with the average airsofter. Lets be honest we look at the drop ins like noobs and in their minds its like we think we are in another league. No Im not saying that when you see a guy full auto-ing for 10 seconds while completely dry firing you cant laugh but its also trying to give a hand would help the player. I know when we show up on a game day we have an idea of how the day should unfold. A little run and gun, and then some team based scenario games. But this is not the case. Last time I was playing a scenario it was hard to find 2 radios to break the team up into communicating squads. We usually play run and gun types of games. But what I have noticed is the refs are pretty open to game ideas. I mean we're probably not going to have some of the scenario games we used to play but we can move game days in the right direction. I think there is a reason we have to cancel so many game days and join with the drop ins.

I agree with some of what you say, but I think the "elitist" tag has run its course and its just a few sour grapes from the old days that had some personal issues with a hand full of the Admins and they are the ones responsible for spreading rumors! if we are/were elitists from running structured games, having training days, work days, having an organized club with voted leaders and maintaining a full web page full of almost 20 years of experience past and present...!! well yes... I guess we are or were Elitists then!

In reality, the new generation loves the drop in style... and that is fine, there is nothing wrong with that, the new players are having a blast, I am not against drop in at all as it has its place for sure, cant blame the field refs for the development, they are just doing the job or running a drop in game, there are no training development classes, so the new players have nothing to follow but the habits they see on and off the field!

The problem lies in where is the separation going to draw its line? when the new players get their fill of mega BB dump what do the progress to? what a eye opener it will be when ever they do decide to play in an organized structure rule filled team aspect Mil-sim?

BCAC/OP-For/Lmag may have been a lot of things, but what they all did do over some 15 years was... teach safe gun handling, tactics, structure, respect for the community and oh yes the dirtiest of things from what I hear ....enforced Rules!!

Its funny actually to watch, some teams that broke away or formed since, all got their start with one of the three originals I mention, some left because they didn't like the "elitist" or rule structure but...strangely enough when they run their teams or club games they have the same briefings and try to run the same structured games? but after a very short time realise even though they should be run that way, it is not so easy and soon give up!


If only the egos, politics and in some cases self interests could be put away and everyone got on the same page, we could have one of the largest and most professionally run airsoft groups in North America! but.... oh well.

[Crash]

If only the egos, politics and in some cases self interests could be put away and everyone got on the same page, we could have one of the largest and most professionally run airsoft groups in North America! but.... oh well.

All i can say is i totally agree. This elitist stuff is getting old. I have personally witnessed the majority of the club member's welcoming new players including myself. Like Cook off states the elitist tag is just an old rumour and a case of sour grapes. Just stated to discredit the club.